I disagree, after all AvP things involving many Xenomorphs, the Queen is enough of a "Big Bad@$$" that we don't need anything more. Plus with it being obvious that a Xenomorph Hive can grow and expand without a King, what would be the point? there seems to be no sign that there is one giant master of all Xenos so why the need? Plus whose to say even the Queen has a gender? What if the "Queen" is simply the "Last-Stage"?

I much prefer the idea of all Xenos being a genderless asexual species, and drones mature into warriors as their heads sharpen, perhaps once a Queen is deceased the head widens to that of a Praetorian which is basically a Queen before Fertility, or the mid-stage between Warrior/Drone and Queen. Perhaps the Queens are genderless, its just that only one will grow to that level and then become fertile and therefore reproduces on its own and since it is the reproducing Hive master it is simply referrred to as a "Queen" when in truth it is simply a fully grown and matured fertile warrior that has main control over the hive.

And lets face it... other than whatever the Egg sack is attached to... Aliens are naked... and I don't see any... protruding reproductive organs... so i say all are genderless, even the queen, it's simply fertile and in charge and asexual.

No Kings...

"make the king like 4 times as big as a queen"

Did you read any of this thread?

This is gonna be my inner feminist speaking (not that being one is bad thing in the first place), but why would the king have to be 4 times as big as the queen? Even if Empresses would still be bigger, that implies that the woman has to be some abnormal badass in order to be better than men in general.

Honestly, Shockwave, I'm starting to take your comments as just a little sexist. We've discussed in this thread that part of the fear factor of Xenomorphs is that so many men are scared to be ruled by a woman (which has become a reality if you're Australian like me - Female Prime Minister, I don't see what the fuss is about) and that the "female" of the species is the most powerful. A King would humanise the Xenomorphs too much.

im not scared of wemon ruling me, its just that I feel like the king should be a bit stronger than the queen, bigger, more advanteges, ect. More then that, it should be part of the life cycle. And no i didnt read all of this thread cause ive been gone for 3 weeks.

But what use would the King have? There are already so many other xenomorphs that fulfil the role that you're suggesting. The Queen is there to breed, and is subsequently the most powerful. Do you ever see a King Ant? Or King Bee? And in either species there's no way in hell that there's a larger specimen than the Queen. I'd suggest reading the rest of the discussion.

"im not scared of wemon ruling me, its just that I feel like the king should be a bit stronger than the queen, bigger, more advanteges, ect. More then that, it should be part of the life cycle. And no i didnt read all of this thread cause ive been gone for 3 weeks."

I'm not racist, I just think whites will always be superior to blacks and have more privelages, bigger, more bathrooms, etc. More than that, they should breed with all races to ensure none of our babies are gay. And no, I haven't read up on history because I've been asleep for a century.

More like " Im not homophobic, cause I'm not scarEd of gays caus my penis is big. I just hate them.



Aceept the fact that there will NEVER BE A PILE OF SHit known as the king

Okay okay before this becomes out-of-hand lets get back on topic.

As far as we know there's no King, and personally there never should be. So for now Xenomorphs are genderless IMO.

Let's talk about the Yautja now. Obviously we have and have had several female members, including Yautja players. Now as far as we know in yautja society the Women are not Hunters or Warriors, in fact there are talks of the Males using insultive terms such as calling them "breeders". However here in RPGs we have allowed Women players to be Hunters and Warriors. Personally I like this fact, or else Female members would be severely S.O.L. in RPGs. However so far as we know in films and games, Female Yautja have never gone out "into the field", and some have even suggested that Scar is female, please god people that is so f'ing false... so we haven't really seen that yet so technically we are out of canon in here but I think we should keep the females able to Hunt. Or Do you think they are like we are? That originally Women weren't seen as fighters but some are, yet even here in the real world women are still called such names, but some women still succeed very well in the Military, perhaps Yautja are the same way?

Btw the conversation regarding Xenomorphs is still up I don't mean to be a prick and say "Shut-up you're wrong!" no I just think that so far as we know, there's no gender, but the debate is still up for grabs, I'm just giving another possible subject for conversation.

"And no i didnt read all of this thread cause ive been gone for 3 weeks."

Alrighty then, I'll re-post some of it:

"Ellen Ripley is the first real sci-fi action heroine in movies. She was fighting to defend her adopted daughter, and humanity as a whole. She needed a female nemesis. Thus, the Alien Queen.

In sci-fi/horror fiction of old, the men would battle invaders from the stars in order to protect what's theirs' (ie: Earth and/or women). Look at stuff like Creature from the Black Lagoon, or It, Terror From Beyond Space, or even King Kong. What's the common thread between all of them?

"Hey, those foreigners are taking our women/planet/property!"

It's an inherently male fear.

The battle in Aliens, though, is between two mothers trying to ensure their children's survival. It's a female fighting a female, and the conflict itself is inherently female. That's the whole point.

It is, on a fundamental level, what makes the Alien movies work. They're primarily about WOMEN.

By eliminating this, by usurping the Queen and having a specifically male alternative rule the Hive (because apparently there NEEDS to be a male in charge) you hamstring the entire thematic thrust of the Alien movies.

It's doesn't work. It just doesn't.

The fact that it doesn't work is the whole point of that "Rouge" comic you keep mentioning. The villain thinks that by creating a King, he will create a "pure" hive. In reality, the King is a deformed brute that kills every drone in the hive because because it views them as competition. The Queen than proceeds to kill it, because she's faster and smarter.

A specifically "male" alien doesn't work because, speaking from an evolutionary standpoint, male animals are primarily concerned with spreading their seed. Females are primarily concerned with nurturing and defending their young.

To put it another way, a Queen wants to defend The Hive at any cost. A King would want to start his own hive. So even within the non-canon EU, the King doesn't work."


@Hunter: I figure it's probably a similar deal. I think Dark Horse comics had a "series bible" for it's Predator comics that said something like "Regarding gender-if you're close enough to tell the difference, you're already dead."

Oh, wow. If they have that bible in production like they do for Avatar and Zelda, I'd love to buy it.

Anyway, Shockwave, if you want a bigger version of the Queen that would still theoretically fit in with canon, you're looking for the Empress, which is still "female."

And no, there is no Emperor.

If you want to scale it up bigger than an Empress, there's the "Queen Mother" from the comics that supposedly controls the whole species.

The Queen Mother, wasn't there something about how there was a blue one and a red one in a comic, and they fought to see which hive would rule the Xenomorph Home World?

That... that... no I don't like it, not at all.

Having some super Xenomorph mastermind? No thanks. That's one very cheesey and two, cliche as he||, especially after the epic proportions that was the Queen in the first AvP film, do you really need any more large and in charge bad@$$ery? The Queens were supposed to be that "Big Guy (Girl) in charge" model.

Besides, having a complete head honcho of the whole species just makes them seem too organized. They're an insectoid species that spreads, I don't see any of those omnipotent masters in our Earth insect species, and again, too cliche.

That would be similar to saying that even though Yautja are separated by clans like humans are by countries and ethnicities that there should be a top Predator Overlord, same for humans, just too much.

Honestly I think DD kind of cleaned this all up in his post, couldn't have really put it better.

EDIT:

And seriously? There was an ultimate Red vs Blue xenomorph war for ruler of the planet? lol... I'm done with this, that's just too damn much...

I didn't say there actually was, I said that I thought there was, I might have just heard it from one of my friends or something, I can't quite remember.

You really wouldn't like our current RPGs, then.

No hard feelings, though. It was all for the sake of "The Hive versus Shadow Serpents."

I don't think the idea of a "supreme overlord" is ridiculous as long as you don't call it a "supreme overlord." The base idea certainly has some potential because, while it would be ridiculous to have a single organism be "in charge" of an entire race the way humans do it, I think the very core of that idea fits in with the Hive Mind aspect of their species.

But I'm not entirely sold on the Hive Mind theory. I like the idea that they actually do act independently of one another, but they're SUCH perfect organisms that they all know they have to work together to efficiently propagate, and that Queens are only there to lay eggs. The only reason the Acheron Queen was able to "give orders" was because the preservation of the eggs was in the best interest of every Xeno in the room.

Following this theory, the only reason Queens are given special status is because they're the egg layers. Individual Xenos can turn hosts into eggs, but this is only done when isolated from the rest of the hive because creating an egg would mean wasting a perfectly good host. We've never actually been given evidence that there can only be one Queen per hive. Maybe when they DO meet other hives, they automatically begin working together. Thus, the Queen Mother is useless as an "overlord." However, Queen Mothers also had the ability to create "guardians" through some means that I don't remember - something involving Royal Jelly, I think.

Royal jelly? Really?

Anyway I don't mind the idea of competing Hives so RPGs I'll be fine with, it's the idea of a Red vs Blue thing... c'mon... I instantly thought of Rooster Teeth. That was the part that got me. But Having a leading being of the species just makes them too much like an organized race that is trying to conquer as opposed to a survival instinct animalistic insect race simply try to grow and thrive.

Having a Mastermind makes them seem like a Sentient Organization of Warriors, not having one makes them more like survivalist insects, which basically was the whole idea. If you make them too organized they're a lot like Yautja in a sense, where Aliens and Predators are supposed to be the polar opposite of each other, which is what makes them so perfect for a crossover that's lasted this many years, one is a sentient organized civilization and the other is a randomized basic instinct animal.

Nah, I completely agree with you, actually. Except for the red vs blue thing - I realized my character is blue while FH's is red, so you already know where that led.

And I still kind of like the idea of royal jelly, but only because real species have it.

Anyway, that brings up the question of Predator hierarchy, which I'm actually kind of interested in. Or should that be a new thread?

Well that depends on whether or not it involves The Predator Hierarchy alone or if it involves gender in the Hierarchy and how its played in RPG. Hoenstly I think the thread refers to the site when it says AvP Universe not the "AvP Universe" but that's up to you. But yeah their hierarchy is quite... um... confusing some times.

But again, Royal Jelly is just... giggle inducing...

Also it's all cool until you two start resiting inside jokes from the series.

What you never heard of royal jeelly, its supposed to transform any xenomorph into a super xenomorph called a preatorian. Im not saying they should or will make they king canon, I just thought it would be cool, anyways, I know all about rugue and the fact that he's not a actual real king alien, hes just an experiment. Rogue isnt the only king that appeared in comics, and yes imknow, the king im about to mention is also just an experiment............the white hybrids, there was a king alien who ruled over the white hybrids, but yes i know they were just experiments to, just putting this fact into the topic. If a king was real, I think that the fact that it is a king and i cannot lay eggs, it should be alot powerfuller and stronger then the queen to put some good use in him, though I do not know how he could have any role in the hive, the best awnser I got for you guys for now is for him to be the final stage of the preatorian life cycle or basicly the leader of the preatorians or general and any other ways he can fit into the hive. And wow, that many posts already! It hasnt even been 4 weeks yet and it has a crap load of posts, i have no problem with it but I mean just WOW!