But... I'm a guy....

OVER RULED!

Damn... well it looks like I need a baby daddy now....

@Concrete: Dude, do you know how many times I've said that very same sentence? IT CANNOT DIE. IT HAS FOUGHT THE REAPER AND EATEN HIS HEART.

@DD/INST: Yeah, that's a good idea. Honestly I don't really mean to start a giant argument about gender; I value DW's input about almost literally everything else and I'd hate for him to stop giving me the occasional advice in that thread.

@DD: Even I quit the site once. I came back. Everyone comes back sooner or later.

Well I don't wanna argue about it, I acknowledge you as an intelligent enough person for your view to be possibly valid even if I disagree with it, especially since it's not something I'm specialized in. I just strongly disagree with the idea of attaching genders to entities, or personalities, or individuals, I don't know what to call it them, the sapient consciousness that you are psychically, you know what I mean, right? I don't consider the body as being part of the person and I consider gender a function of the body, so I don't support the idea of identifying with a function of the body. I do believe it is 100% possible to take control over everything that is regulated by your subconscious by doing exercises that can reprogram it, and this is supported by life coaches or whatever those people are called. So when someone gives "I can't help it, it's just who I am" for doing something dumb, I consider them very lowly people.



Anyway what I wanted to say was that I do not believe in the possibility of a future where it is socially acceptable to identify with genders that you just made up to feel better about how bad you're doing in school or about how mean your parents are to you. People who dissociate like this need help with reintegration, not to be encouraged to dissociate even more. That just fractures your personality until you become extremely unstable.



And the thing about gender assigned to objects, I don't know how that appeared in the first place, it's inherited from the Latin language, I don't know if Greek too, I've never studied Greek.

@SR: Sorry, about Skype, I just went on a really long and pointless trip and it was a huge waste of time and I'm kind of pissed off right now. I'm glad I at least got some chicken.

@DW: I'm actually glad we can agree to disagree about this, 'cause I like I said, I like reading your opinions on pretty much everything else that gets talked about on this site.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtkdRUga3so

That is all, Have a nice day.

So I'm bored, without a phone, and haven't been on the site in over two weeks (holy crap).


So anyway, was reading up on the "Insturmentality" thread and felt like I wanted to answer a question posed by Bloo. Being a native German speaker, this should be easy. ( I also speak Spanish, so lol)

"By the way, I don't speak any European languages, but I do know that some of them gender specific objects. Why is that?"

First, you have to realize that assuming that English does not have gender specification to objects. In reality, we do. Old English actually had 3 gender pronouns, male, female, and neutral. As it grew, this became less apparent. However, note how one calls a ship "she", for example. Actually, we have one of the languages with the largest amount of gender pronouns, 3.

Now I can only assume that the source of gender-based item pronouns stems from the pagan belief that everything has a respective deity (god of water, sun, air, ect.) and that carried on to our modern western languages which originated from those peoples.

Anywho, if it matters at all, I agree with what you've said Bloo (about how transgenders "feel" and stuff). I guess I come close, being gender neutral myself (I honestly go by male just because it's easier). In the same vain, I agree with DeathWraith in that it would be easier with a gender binary. To put it simply and bluntly, humans aren't simple enough for that. I know what you mean by it, but its kinda like saing "Why isn't everyone white" or "It would be easier if Chinese people spoke english"

Anyway, WoT over.
TDLR: <3 you homies I miss this site i need to post more.

POST-POST EDIT, LOL: Sorry, guys. Not sure what happened here.

I've started and re-started this post about a thousand times in both the Instrumentality thread and in this one, and I've come to the conclusion that I can't talk objectively or intelligently about this subject. Fuck.

Anyway, I'll just let Bloo and DW sound intelligent while I sit over here and try to make a dick joke as a cover for the fact that my education was shit.

EDIT: I guess what Dronehive said comes close to what I've tried and failed to say about seven times-

"humans aren't simple enough for that"

I mean, yeah, basically. I think it's more of a societal thing than a biological thing, but the idea that men are THIS and women are THAT has got to go. I mean, holy fuck, the way I stand and walk and the vocabulary I use is almost entirely informed by not wanting to appear gay in middle school. Society (ie: the fuckheads I went to school with) made it very clear what was feminine and what was masculine, and I think it informs our behavior in ways we don't even notice.

So I guess I'm saying a lot of the "guy shit" I do is a performance? And if I had the choice...

Oh, boy. Never mind.

ANYWAY, my point (if you can call this incoherent babble that) is that I consider gender and biological sex to be different. I mean, yes, obviously biological sex is a purely physical thing and shouldn't be applied to someone's mind/soul/identity/whateverthefuck, but gender as a concept seems a hell of a lot more... I dunno, ethereal?

EDIT 2: That was a weird place to drop it, but I couldn't figure out what I was trying to say, and so I got frustrated and just hit "submit." What I was trying to say, I think, was that gender HAS to be more than just physical, because... Well, males are supposed to be more competitive, self-reliant, stoic and all that? Well, I'm not most of those things. That might be because I'm a complete neurotic fuck-up, admittedly, but these behaviors seem to come naturally to most other male neurotic fuck-ups I know, so...

Jesus H. Christ, I'm more coherent when I'm drunk... What I'm trying to say is that biological sex is physical, but gender is in your head, and anything that describes what goes on in the human brain has to have more than 2-3 words to describe it.

Don't pop pills before a debate, kids.

EDIT 4: I'm just kidding about the pill-popping, in case anyone was wondering.

Wow, all you people can do is talk intelligently, while I, your fellow man, needs to be impregnated for the sake of your other fellow man Deathwraith. For shame I say, fooooor shaaaame. Not one offer to knock me up so Deathwraith can feed off of my super cravings. I'm one hot piece of ass, you know.

@Bloo: It's no biggy, I found a metal cover of all the music from Lotr and the Hobbit while I was out so that was cool. Hope you'll be alright, and hope the chicken was good.

I'm still not entirely sure what everyone is talking about so I'm just going to stick with my kitchens and eat some grapes.

Oh, you know, jus' chillin'.

Check the Instrumentality thread if you really wanna know. In retrospect, an alien vs. predator message board probably wasn't the best place to debate issues of gender identity.

Part of the discussion from the "Instrumentality" thread was moved over to the OT thread so it didn't take over the other thread, also your choice of a racoon picture after I just stated how much I hate them, accident? I think not... I'm watching you... I know when you are sleeping... I know when your awake... I know when you've been bad or good... so be good, for goodness sakes!

Now, I shall comment on the topic at hand. I know someone in my actual life who does not fall under one gender or another by definition. By "I know them" I mean I've actual met them in person, talk to them on a semi-regular basis and have totally co-oped Halo 3 with them. This person was, when I first met them, referred to as female and treated as female in all regards. Life for them isn't easy, insensitive dad who doesn't understand, everybody being all "why did you change your name to a guy name? You're a girl!" and other such annoying things. It was not a choice to be born that way, and it most certainly isn't something they can just ignore and pretend to be one or the other.

And also, I have a gay uncle. So I'm not really homophobic in the slightest, as I have gay friends and family members. All of them were born that way, they didn't have a choice in the matter and they still identify with their gender.

So that's my experience with such matters and what I've found the groups of people we are discussing to feel and believe.

@Kirby: I REALLY WANNA WATCH THAT CLIP BUT MY INTERNET IS LITERAL ASS RIGHT NOW...

@Tawg: get that WEAK shit OUTTA HERE i will not have fucking racoons up in this piece. WHERE MY FUCKING RED PANDAS

@DH: Hell yeah you do. You missed my post about Elfen Lied. Uh, basically, I didn't like it, but I plan to finish it anyway to see if I change my mind. It baffled me because literally every other anime you mentioned (like Girl Who Leapt Through Time and Steins;Gate) are ones I like, so yeah.

As for the gendered words: Wow, that's pretty interesting, and I never once thought about Old English. See, this is why I need to take more classes on the history of words. I really wanna know why some words came to be, like "unclefucker." (Seriously though, I love thinking about the origin of slang.)

And yeah, like DD said, the "We're not simple enough for that" comment was really spot on.

@DD: Actually, what you're saying makes a lot of sense, dude. I've tried not caring about that shit since I left high school. I should have started during, even.

High school is made up of so many dudebros and fedorabros that it's exactly the opposite of "the best years of your life," even if you're doing relatively well on the "social ladder." It's such a toxic environment, especially in America.

I don't know much about the rest of the world, 'cause I dunno how accurate Degrassi and Skins are, but you probably know better than I do that American high school is worse than giving Satan a handjob while fingering yourself with icey-hot on your finger tips and chili powder on your asshole (since my high school was kind of... not like stereotypical high schools. I mean, being a band geek was genuinely cool).

Anyway, you did make educated assessments of sex/gender roles, so don't sell yourself short. Drunk DD sounds like your supervillain alter ego, though.

@SR: Yeah, it's really hard to watch, I agree. I guess that's also why I feel so strongly about it. I just hate when people are insulted for being themselves. I mean, as long as their choices aren't harming anyone else, I don't really give a shit what they do.

Here's your Red Pandas

CROP YOUR FUCKING IMAGE (but thank you A+ red panda)

Yeah I don't know how to do that. Also check the picture topic and vote on who wins between Red Pandas and Raccoons.

>but its kinda like saing "Why isn't everyone white" or "It would be easier if Chinese people spoke english"

Ok, well, it's not at all like saying "Why isn't everyone white" because, as I've said, that is a physical feature and your consciousness is neither black, white, green, nor any other colour. All people are people. On the other hand, it would absolutely be easier if Chinese people spoke English and a lot of them do. That doesn't mean that the Chinese language needs to disappear, but in order for people to understand each other better, they need to be able to relate to each other more, not to become unable to relate to themselves. I consider the consciousness of a person - that which is the actual human and not the body that keeps it alive - to be genderless, and that genders should only apply to the body. Of course, people will try to come up with reasons for their lives to have some meaning and to feel unique, and I wouldn't stop them or persecute them for doing it, but I would also not encourage them to identify fantasies of something that exists only inside their own mind as being completely tangible. It's like having your own personal god. And just the same, I do not see a possible future in which religion is a major factor in society. I envision a future in which people are able to understand themselves and make efforts toward becoming what they want to be rather than arbitrarily attach meanings and labels to parts of their lives that don't function for reasons they haven't even tried to explore.


And while I agree that humans become complex throughout their lives due to experiences they go through, I am also convinced that humans start out as uh, I don't remember the proper word so I'm gonna use a metaphor here, a bit of dough with a certain shape that things can get stuck into. And the more things get stuck into it, the more complex of a finite object it becomes, but all of the things can also be replaced. And there are directions of complexity that could potentially attach too much weight to one side so that a whole branch of complexity can break off, or the dough itself can break in two, and unfortunately even more. I consider gender identities to be a form of dissociation caused by trauma. I know it doesn't sound severe, since a lot of people are doing it, but to me it goes hand-in-hand with the wave of anti-vaccine people. A lot of people are vocal about that too, and a lot of people consider it to be more healthy not to vaccinate and refuse to accept the conservative view simply because they think what they're doing is progress. I think encouraging gender identities is no more progressive than letting a sapling fall over and die instead of tying it to a pole because that would mean you're taking away its right to grow whichever direction it wants.


So yeah, if someone says "I'm a double-transvestite-triple-olympic-penis and my pronouns are bridge, curb and shyamalan", I do not believe they are being culturally diverse, but rather mentally unstable.

2DW

I definitely understand what you're saying, and forgive me if at any point I seem like I'm attacking you (though I doubt you of all people get offended by what some kid wrote on the internet). However I disagree with some parts of what you have said.

"Ok, well, it's not at all like saying "Why isn't everyone white" because, as I've said, that is a physical feature and your consciousness is neither black, white, green, nor any other colour."

I disagree. It is the exact same. Just as color, ethnicity, and language are "essential" to your being, so is gender. It is a part of who you are. It is not a feeling nor is it an action. It is part of who you are.

"Of course, people will try to come up with reasons for their lives to have some meaning and to feel unique, and I wouldn't stop them or persecute them for doing it, but I would also not encourage them to identify fantasies of something that exists only inside their own mind as being completely tangible."

I think you are making a common misconception there. Sexual identity is tangible, not in the physical body, but rather in the behaviors of the endocrine system. Scientifically speaking, it is possible, and not uncommon, for people who are transgender to have a condition that causes them to have normal gender situations at birth, but later develop large amounts of the opposite gender's hormones (this is not in 100% of transgender people)

Anyway, response over.

@Bloo

Sorry to hear that you aren't liking Elfen Lied. It definitely isn't the best show, and isn't for everyone. If anything, I recommend reading the manga. It's infinetly better, especially the ending (the anime ending is crap comparatively). My reasons for liking the show have to due with what it says about humanity and human nature. A good example is the quote (don't know if you got to the infamous "orphanage" scene)

Lucy: "When you're miserable, you need to make someone even more miserable than yourself."

or

Kurama: "People who think that they can make up their past follies with regret cannot be forgiven."
(especially important with the manga ending)

Anyway, the reason I recommended it to you is more of the ascetic (not art style, mind you) that is created.

I see why you dislike it, most people would agree with you. Perhaps a better "horror" anime recommendation is required? If so, I have what many consider the only really and truly scary anime (if you haven't watched it yet). Read a review and watch it if you feel intrested or have the time. (just a small warning, it's gory as fuck, and confusing as fuck) The art isn't the best, but bear through it. Cause you know its good. Trust me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TOlEtUOO80

And the opening, just so you know you're going on a trip

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkiNUNC4ZYU

Btw, I recommend this to everyone. If you like horror)