This is way off topic, but do you still draw digitally? (You can answer me in the Off-Topic thread so this one doesn't get even more sidetracked.)

Hunts End, it's your kind of posts that make me love Forums, I wish I could see more posts like that. Also so I don't feel like the only one blowing up pages with Novel-length posts. Hopefully this one is just as mind-blowing. Please read:

I like your interest in their natural enemies, although Xenomorphs are described as "Perfect Organisms" like you said they must have some weakness. Touching back on the idea of their homeworld (realize I have not yet seen Prometheus and honestly have no plans to) as far as I'm concerned LV-1204 (If thats what the first film called it I always fear I'm mixing it up with LV-1201 from the AvP2 game) but LV-120something is their homeworld looking at the films as Canon.

Much like I said earlier perhaps that is where the Yautja would hunt them, look at the Terrain and the planet's Nature, although we didn't see the whole planet and it may be much like Earth in the sense that it has several different climates throughout, but looking at it like a Planet from Star Wars where the entire Planet is one climate it almost seems perfect for a Right of Passage Hunt. No Structures, no trees, only natural structures like mountains, it looks perfect. Perhaps that's where they got the Aliens for AvP as well.

Not to throw a wrench in your idea of Natural Predators but what if Humans and Yautja (And any other advanced species in the AvP Universe that we have yet to learn of) are in fact what keeps them in check?

If Xenomorphs are in fact "Perfect Organisms/Specimens" then the only thing to keep the checks and balances would in fact be a non-natural organism like Humans and Yautja? By non-natural I'm referring to the fact we use weapons, and synthetic equipment/thechnology.

In order to keep a Naturally Perfect species in check you need to use Un-Natural Methods.

Technology and Advancement of their Prey is their Predator.

Think of it this way; if the Xenos are in fact created to be so perfect and the ultimate predators towards all prey, then their natural predators are the advancement of their prey (In fact it almost seems like they require the advancement to migrate to other worlds, in short they need a ship to leave the planet). Their best prey seems to be Humans and Yautja, creating Drone Warriors and PredAliens, so the only way Humans and Yautja can fight back is to advance and find ways to kill the Xenomorphs.

Humans and Yautja are the Xenomorphs best prey, but at the same time, their best Predator.

Seeing as how Predators are far more advanced than Humans, and Humans can yes take down Xenos at this point but not flawlessly, this creates the Food-Chain where Yautja (being the most advanced) top the Xenomorphs, and Xenomorphs top the Humans (due to our lack of advancement)

Yautja-Xenomorph-Human

But then to counteract this advancement in their prey, the Xenomorphs fall back and rely on numbers. When a Xeno attacks a prey, if the prey is more advanced and can handle it, they simply send more Xenomorphs, which is why it took hundreds of Xenos to face three Yautja in AvP.

Obviously Xenomorphs evolve over time too and become physically stronger and faster, especially the Hive in AvP. Think about this, that Hive has done nothing but fall prey to Yautja for centuries. So (much like the Yautja aspect mentioned in the third film Predators about adaptation AND the Adaptation that Ash gave so much credit to in the first Alien film) The Yautja advance in that time yes but the Xenomorphs over time may have been advancing too and evolving more and more to be able to face the Yautja. This explains why suddenly in 2004 when the Weyland team entered the Pyramid, the Xenomorphs had adapted enough that the Alpha-Male dubbed "Grid" or "Net-Head" was able to single-handedly take down the Alpha-Male Yautja "Celtic" by himself.

Xenomorphs are excellent at adaptation, so who is to say that over the years they didn't slightly adapt to the Yautja?

Did the Yautja realize this? Maybe.

Either they didn't realize it and that's why they were so unprepared... or they in fact DID realize it but simply see it as means to their own advancement. Their prey is advancing (that hive moreso than the rest of the species due to it's constant interaction with Yautja so if the Yautja can face that Hive they can certainly face other Xenomorphs around the Universe) so since their prey is advancing that helps them to advance as well and check their own advancement. Much like stated in the film "Predators" the Yautja come back more advanced every time and see how well it holds up to the advancement of their prey, and while doing such they see what else needs to be improved upon.

In short, the Xenomorphs and the Yautja are constantly using each other to Evolve.

Yautja evolve, Xenomorphs adapt, Then Yautja adapt to this Adaptation. If the Xenomorphs had a more sentient brain I could picture a mutual respect between the two... however the Xenomorphs are mindless monsters so that's impossible.

The Yautja have found the Perfect Species. One that adapts great to their situation and evolves. That's perfect for a race of hunters to evolve as well isn't it? Their backstories are linked almost without the cross-overs! Watching their individual films call for a connection. A Race of Perfect Hunters that adapt to their Prey (Humans and Xenomorphs) and a Species of ever-reproducing and Constantly-adapting Organisms. It's a perfect match.

Perhaps the Yautja don't TRULY have clans, but the smaller ships seen in Predator 2 and Predators are hunting parties, and the large ship seen in AvP was due to it being a conjoined thing for all Yautja to do these Blood Tests, which would explain why the existence of a PredAlien was a warning sent to the Homeworld for Wolf to see and act on.

And the situation that the Yautja Clan in AvP gave themselves was PERFECT for the Yautja. They took a single Queen Xenomorph and forced her to reproduce. Her offspring are FORCED to adapt to the Yautja due to constant repeated exposure. The Yautja use this to advance themselves. And then Once every so many years they can test themselves once again to see if they are improving well enough. This forces the Xenomorphs to adapt once more. It's an endless Adaptation and Advancement Cycle that is actually more productive to the Yautja because these adaptations that the Xenomorphs make is only within that Hive, not the entire species. So if the Yautja can successfully handle this Hive, one that is specifically adapted TO THE YAUTJA, then they should have no problems dealing with other Xenomorphs around the Universe who are not so advanced for the Yautja.

It's a perfect system that the intelligence of the Yautja formulated to improve themselves and in Domino Effect this keeps the Xenomorph Species in check.

The only way to check-and-balance a naturally perfect species is by unnatural means and technology. And keeping this species in check shares a result of the Technological Hunter Species Evolving and constantly Advancing.

What a perfect system...

Fantasy or not it really is extraordinary.

My own belief was that the Xenos don't conform to our laws of understanding in a way that we'll ever be able to completely comprehend because we can't, kind of like a Lovecraftian creature. Not to the point that they're supernatural, but to the point where they're a bigfoot or werewolf that we've seen. They're physical creatures and there's a shit ton of lore on them, but honestly, do we really know what the fuck we're talking about?

That's their whole thing, isn't? Being alien?

That doesn't mean I don't like the discussion, though. This is really interesting.

The one curious thing about them that always bothers me is the fact that the Giger drone seemed to be enjoying itself. Maybe they have personalities and we just don't have the ability to tell.

-Bloo-: Personally I think the drone in the first film was disturbed by the lack of others of its own kind, I think by the time it killed Lambert and Parker (while Riply was off running around looking for the damn cat) the alien was pissed that it had no sisters, it was like it had no job so it just wanted to rip these people apart for activating its egg and face hugger for no reason. It kept the other mechanic and Dallas alive before simply slaughtering the rest. Maybe you’re right, maybe they do have personalities or maybe the drone was on the verge of molting into a warrior and needed the calories. Who knows. I’m talking out of my ass like most theory slingers do.

Hunter_Predator: I’d call the way that the yautja have used the queen in AVP similar to the way human beings have bred domestic dogs to suit certain needs. It is different from however akin to selective breeding. I hated (HATED) how quickly the the xenomorphs developed inside the hosts in AVP, but like you said maybe that is because the queen constantly needed to make adjustments to her brood to keep up. I also noticed how much bigger that queen was than any of the others we had seen so maybe she was simply ancient and had collected wisdom over the perhaps thousands of years she had been there, it certainly looked like she had planned her little escape very carefully. In the AVP books the queens are regarded as smarter than the others, maybe that queen had collected a little wisdom but overall I simply view the AVP films for what they are; an excuse to have these two iconic film monsters beat the tar out of each other on the silver screen.

I’m just going from what little I know here about evolution, maybe they weren’t a perfect species before the yautja (or another advanced race) got a hold of them. Ash is quoted calling them the perfect organism, admiring its “purity’ but the fact remains that somebody created him, programed him, sent him with the crew of the Nostromo like some sadistic autopilot, so he may simply have been expressing the opinions of his creators, opinions he was designed to share with whoever sent him which by the way makes me wonder if the company knew the damn things were out there to start with (go ahead, mention Prometheus if you like but it was probably because the company had caught the signal from the beacon years earlier and deciphered it, to what level of detail is speculation I think.). I think everything else just quoted that first movie (and Ash) into oblivion.

So I just don’t know, maybe it’s better that way as Bloo has said, should we REALLY know more about them? We’d be killing their magic too.

Oh right, staying on topic. I would have liked it if they had tied together the Bishop synthetic and the dying CEO character in AVP better, yeah Aliens vs Predator was disappointing but still...

Sigh, again with the "Predator Hunter"? I know it's redundant and all but give me a break lol I made that username a decade ago.

But yeah, over time they have most likely adapted as I said.

But touching on the Ash point, what you said about him simply displaying his creators' thoughts is possible, yet although he was merely a robot looking at how the Synthetics in the Alien films acted, (Including Bishop and the girl that Wynona Ryder played I think "Call"? but we dont count A4 do we?) They seem to have very strong personalities and can hold thoughts of their own. Yes there is a long time span between these films and the advanced synthetics could have maybe only gotten those personas after Ash, but it was clear they gave Ash a personality in the film (most likely just to hide his robotic secret)

So him being a "created" being (and a scientist) It's not unbelieveable that his "personality" might admire other species such as the Xenomorphs. Maybe he wasn't looking at it from his Creator's point of view, but from being a CREATION's view. He considers himself pure, but he has a personality, so he knows he isn't TRULY pure, therefore he admires this natural being's purity.

Also yes, they totally knew about the signal a long time ago, that's probably why they conveniently replaced the Science Officer with Ash I think it was 2 days before leaving... Coporate Bastards.

And Like I said in another topic I know I dont really want to know much more about Yautja because of the magic of it all, maybe a very slight little bit so that future films and games aren't all alike trying to make it a "secret monster killing us" we'd get bored of that idea, but only tell me a little bit more, and I mean VERY little (like we learned in Predators)

So no, none of us really want to know more about them, that's probably why I started talking about the backstory of the connection between the two species less than their individual ones. Other than my first long post about how much of their origin and personalities (and in a sense that links to their own backstories) but how much of them has been lost. But now we're more on the connection between the two because simply... we don't want to know any more. That's what makes them terrifying, the mystery, like I said, Humans fear most what they don't understand (the whole point about Alien, it's confusing!), so why try to understand something that we, in a sense, WANT to fear?

But anyway... sorry I go on rants and tangents a lot, forgive me and heads up. Veteran members know this, and I'm sorry lol I'm a little TOO passionate... maybe a lot... I don't know, don't get me started.

Passion isn't so much a bad thing Hunter_Predator, we all have our opinions. Sorry about the reverse user name thing, things tend to get typed out backwards or tangled when I write, there isn't much excuse for it on my part unless we would like to blame it on the fact that I'm probably multitasking ninety percent of the time I spend on the computer.

I don't really like mixing the worlds too much, Aliens and Predators. If I were to express a bias opinion without the granted few comics that were any good and the novelizations that were loosely tolerable, I'd say they shouldn't have crossed the boundaries between the franchises. Being that those worlds are now considered a single universe where both creatures exist I really can't sit and boo hoo about it, it is what it is and while I don't like some of the movies as much as I could I don't discount them as canon. They were filmed, they made it to theaters, I'm not going to pretend they didn't happen on the merit that the plot sucked and the effects were substandard. If Fox claims the film as its own then I will recognize it as the real deal.

I'm going to get chewed on for this, but I did actually enjoy Alien: Resurrection, it didn't suck all that bad, it had plenty of potential, it was done to a standard that doesn't make me want to ralph at the fact that I couldn't see anything thanks to dark lighting to hide all the flaws (yes there was some of that but not like it looked in AVPR) and it disgusted me in all the right titillating ways.

AVPR crossed a bold screwed up line by targeting things with an occupied uterus, it was just distasteful and some how repugnant. It was done for shock value and you can tell that by how they laser focused on the subject so much throughout the film; as a matter of fact those were the only scenes I could see at all well after the power went out, they really wanted people to be terrified of getting pregnant. Also how the hell would face hugging a woman and implanting the chest bursters by means of the throat even come close to putting them near or inside of the uterus to chew up the baby as they seem to have been suggesting? It would make better sense to do that... Uhh, implantation thing elsewhere at another entree point if you get my drift. I guess making any pregnant audience member want to go get sick at the theater lavatory facility was okay but it isn't okay to have an alien... Never mind, I don't even want to say it. Well anyway I would have liked that whole deal explained. I consider that question raising set of scenes staying on topic with the thread, while I don't wish for a “Predalien vs The Maternity Ward” sequel I would like them to make it clear to me just how any of that was supposed to work. I know what they were trying to do, but what I got from it makes absolutely no sense without killing the host LONG before the chest bursters can chew their way out. (Yeah, that rant was bound to happen eventually. Sorry bout that.)

Poor Wolf with his spiffy whip was cool, but not cool enough to counteract that. You can say that film just put a bad taste in my mouth for AVP, I stayed away from my interest in both aliens and predators for a while after that, years actually. Worse I went to theaters with my dad, husband and my grandmother so they looked at me like a little sicko as we left for being a fan of each respective franchise.

So if I sound a little jaded on aliens and predators sometimes, that movie mentioned above may be why. I have a uterus. It freaked me out. Not in a good way.

I like other aspects of Aliens vs Predator and I like the idea of some clans using the xenomorphs in blooding rituals, but clearly not all do this. The individuals in “Predator”, “Predator 2” and “Predators” did not seem to bare any of these marks on their heads or bodies (I may have to go back and watch “Predators” again to make sure I’m not talking rubbish but I don’t remember any scars on the two faces we saw or the masks). I think there are other clans that use other means to test the young, there is a comic somewhere I think where they hunt something on the home world instead, not a xeno but something native to that system.

I like the idea of a variety of clans and cultures, it would be no surprise to me if this was touched upon but I agree that I don’t want to know too much, but I also don’t want to depend on the idea that aliens and predators histories are overly tangled and twisted together from the very dawn of time. Everything is up to personal interpretation as it is now, for you the idea that they have a co dependance on each other for the purpose of evolving to be tougher organisms is good, for me a rich and varied culture for yautja that isn’t too closely tied to aliens all the time is good and so is an established ecology from which aliens could have come from.

Yes, I agree that some clans depend on the aliens to perform not only rites of passage but to test their equipment and check their strength often, but I don’t want to tie them too closely together by assuming that all yautja do it that way. By all means tie them up though, as close as you can get them because that is your right to interpret them that way. This is what I love about so much being left to speculation in the movies, we can still have an imagination about it but I WOULD like to know what happened to Dutch, I wonder if they locked him away somewhere.

I'm not certain about Harrigan but I read somewhere that Dutch died a month later or something like that from I think infection and then radiation from the blast, but that's just Expanded Universe and not set-in-stone.

Although I did mention the possibility of the entire species using such acts for ritual I left the possibility of it simply being that single clan using the Xenomorphs, I don't like the entire race being tied either but I do like the idea of how what connections they do have work.

Honestly I don't know what to say about AvP:R, I would have to assume that the PredAlien was in the process of becoming a queen and therefore I guess a "Praetorian PredAlien", that is if you considder Praetorians Canon. When the Queen of a Hive dies, another must take it's place right? That might have been the purpose of the PredAlien, to start another Hive elsewhere. Honestly I think the throat induced impregnation thing was simply to add more horror, disgust, and confusion to the Xenomorphs, just the idea that they can do that, they wanted to add more to what the Xenos were capable of and they did.

I will admit though it was pretty gruesome.

Back to the topic of both species like I said, I left it possible that only that clan thought of such uses for the Xenomorphs, not necessarily the entire Yautja race. Although if you look more into it than just a simple cameo the Clan in Predator 2 did have a Xenomorph Skull hanging in the Trophy Room.

Obviously some Yautja don't do this, if what I said was to be true and Xenomorphs are truly native to only LV-1204, then the Hive on Earth would probably be the only off planet Xenomorphs other than any that are maybe in test labs. Then seeing just how nomadic Yautja are one can assume their species is probably well populated and scattered across the Universe. so I highly doubt EVERY Yautja goes to LV-1204 to hunt Xenomorphs for a right of passage. Obviously some of them that are further away from LV-1204 use other means. In fact the Clan from AvP and P2 may be the only ones who use them. You still have to admit that system they have is pretty amazing.

I'm closet-nerd enough to have an idea for my own Novel/Graphic-Novel story with an entire clan thought out and I plan on going into detail with this whole thing. However I like the idea of having other Yautja "Clans" completely alien to the idea of Xenomorphs (Pun very much intended) and maybe even humans. This will hopefully all play a part somewhere. But imagine somewhere in Space theres a Galaxy with a world much like Mass Effect, what if there are Yautja out there that decided not to hunt at all and are instead civilized? I'm going too into an idea that doesn't need to be produced.

But although many things have portrayed alien races to be very similar to Homo-Sapiens (like Twilight Zone, Star Wars, Star Trek, hell even Superman) It's possible there are "Humans" on other planets and therefore Xenomorphs possibly as well, but as far as we know in the AvP Universe, Humans are Native to Earth, and Xenomorphs are Native to LV-1204 (assuming) where as Yautja are advanced enough that they are freely Nomadic, so there isnt a definite connection, I'm merely stating the possibility of the clan's connection is quite interesting.

Speaking of which I wonder how many Planets the Yautja have Colonized? if any? What if they are (other than the AvP:R planet) like the Quarians from Mass Effect? The Quarians lost their homeworld to War and were left without a homeworld. As a result they are living amongst ships (In fact the Entire species is for the most part completely contained into a single fleet) and are entirely nomadic, so much so that living on these ships has left them with virtually no immune system and therefore they must wear full-body biosuits for protection and life. Clearly the Yautja have amazing Immune Systems or they wouldnt be able to travel world to world in a metal speedo and a mask without dying, but what do you think about their Colonization?

Are they Nomads with no true Homeworld and live to not only hunt Prey but also adventure? Or have they Colonized several worlds and claimed them as theirs? Or perhaps due to their strict code of Honor, they remain holding on to one single "Sacred World" that will forever be their "Homeworld"?

All I know is due to these questions we should expect two Clans from either ends of the Galaxy to be vastly different from one another, and therefore more than likely do not all use Xenomorphs for Hunting and/or Right of Passage. It's just the system that a single clan (assumedly) has seemed to have found is quite amazing once you look too much into it like myself...

wait...

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