A new topic

I know everyone is going to disagree with me on this, I don't care, I openly express my views, opinions, and theories, no matter how absurd or retarded they sound. I personally say Aliens have better Speed, Strength, and Physique than Predators, whereas Predators are more muscular, thus must weigh more (Armored), stealthier, and more intelligent, and that Aliens 'Hives' are merely massive mating clusters, where the Queen or Female alien emits hornifying pheromones that reach male aliens for miles, attracting them. I'll assume that a majority of the males in Aliens seen are ones from the Derelict space~craft, as there are lots of eggs.

The Colonial Marines aren't that great. To be more specific, the basic idea of the marines suck, not the character's from Aliens. Those soldiers had real personality, charm, and made you feel for them when they took an alien's tongue to the face. Their weapons are uninspired, they use uninteresting armor and are just generally all around average. If you take the marines and expect them to be deep an interesting simply by extracting their weapons and armor from Aliens, you lose the only thing that made them stand out, their individual characters.

It gets pretty iffy when trying to see how strong an alien is compared to a predator. Evidence of the alien's strength is its ability to grab people for impregnation and holding the APC door open while one or two marines tried to shut it. For that last point, I don't think it really shows how strong an alien is. If you can lock you elbows, its not that hard to strong arm someone else of their arms are already fully extended. Try it for yourself and see. To support a predator's strength, one beat the shit out of Arnold with minimal effort. I think that does it.

Alien has not aged well at all. I still love it, but your average teenager hates it when they approach it with the mindset up today's horror.

AvP:R is more fun to watch then AvP.

That last part is strictly opinion, Aliens need to be strong, they don't have the ability to use weapons, Predators do, they don't need to be as strong, also, Parker, who was played by Yaphet Kotto, is 6'4, a much larger man than Arnold, who is 6'2, and the Predator just beat the shit out of him, before it was finally killed rather easily by a log, the Alien had to be blown out of an airlock, where I assume it suffocated in the depths of space, it would need to be a pretty dense creature to survive for as long as it did, it pretty much goes without saying Aliens are much stronger and heavier than they look, easily standing a full foot taller than Predators, on average anyway, I'm sure there are strong Predators that can easily match an Alien in hand to hand combat (Celtic).

I said it once and I'll say it again: no one takes space marines seriously anymore. Our marines, on the other hand, are still hardcore.

If we're talkign about what we think they SHOULD be, I'll submit the following (look at me with my big, fancy city words):

Aliens: Frankly, I don't give a rat's ass how strong or fast they are, or the specifics of their biology. What's important is that they're ALIENS.

They should be almost Lovecraftian in a way. They're not like us, and they don't give a shit who you are back in the world. If Hitler and Mother Teresa were in the same room as an Alien, it would kill them both without thinking twice.

Our morals and ethics mean nothing to them, because they are OUR morals and ethics, and they don't apply to things that are Not From Here. It isn't that they're evil; it's just what they do.

"That last part is strictly opinion, Aliens need to be strong, they don't have the ability to use weapons, Predators do, they don't need to be as strong,"

That is also strictly opinion. They hunt big game for a living humans can't even imagine. I'm pretty sure carrying loaded guns on their arms is a must. And I'm not talking about their weapons.

Also @DD, I couldn't agree more.

Internecivus raptus- the xenomorph. At birth, it is a faceless parasite, abducting a living host and hijacking its body for the creature's own survival. The end result is a killing machine with no remorse, no pity, and no identity. The only goal of an alien is to reproduce and further the procreation of its species. As individuals, they can be silent and cunning, often observing their prey in an almost curious manner before a swift and brutal attack. Generally larger and more powerful than their host species, they are biological weapons of death capable of surprising intelligence and unmatched savagery. In my humble opinion, the recent adoption of the alien character as a 'mindless animal' couldn't be further from the truth.

The predator species- ruthless, sadistic, bloodthirsty extraterrestrials. Their greatest joy is the pain and death they bring upon a dangerous enemy during their ritualistic hunts. Forget Samurai-like codes of honour, these creatures live for the thrill of the kill, taking pride in displaying the severed heads of their victims as a sign of their conquering dominance over other dangerous life forms. Standing at 7ft on average, they are physically far superior in every way to even the greatest human specimen, able to perform amazing feats of agility which allows them to close in on their prey for a swift, violent kill with their assortment of grisly weapons. Predators are deadly hunters of the galaxy, instilling fear into every living being who crosses their path.
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In a nutshell, I believe the most true and accurate depictions of both aliens and predators to be their appearances in Predator, Predator 2 and the Alien trilogy. Everything else I choose to dismiss, as all the other movies merely show weak copies of the original monsters.

"Forget Samurai-like codes of honour, these creatures live for the thrill of the kill, taking pride in displaying the severed heads of their victims as a sign of their conquering dominance over other dangerous life forms."

That surprised me a bit. I always thought if there was something they were even remotely similar to it was the samurai.

I know what my idea of the Alien is but now I'm kind of rethinking my opinion of the Predator.

Personally, with my own opinion that will be forgotten eventually, I can see some things that are clear to me.

The predators, for instance, seem to me to be like the highly-advanced safari-hunters of the universe, killing sentient beings for sport with high-tech weaponry that, I suppose, the marines would probably develop something of such power given enough time. Generally accepted rules of the hunt by the species as a whole, though the civilization as a whole being sparse in locations and only in large groups when special help is needed from the homeworld when a dangerous crisis begins.
I'd also think that their race would have augmentations and armour properties that made the race's strength comparable to an alien. Additional strength, reflexes, sight and the ability to camoflage itself are the things we know it can do from the original movie, though I'd also assume that tair armour would increase their constitution among other things that would help in the hunt.

As for the aliens, I'd think they would be much stronger and faster than humans, and probably as strong, or stronger, than a predator. The queen is the ruler of the local population of aliens, directing them via a form of telepathy. Aliens without said queen would ahve to rely on pheremones, snarling, grunting and most likely other forms of communication to direct eachother. A lone alien in space, for instance, would be the singular hunter - using stealth and percision to hide and strike when the time was right, much like the predator. With a queen directing them and with a large amount, they would resort to swarming the enemy with a sheer mass of numbers, strength and speed. These two theroies can be seen in the two movies, I think - Alien with the first, Aliens with the second. Without the queen to direct the drones to bring back living people for impregnation, their only need is to kill, devour and feed.
And, of course, there's quite a few different types of aliens, I'd think. We know there's such types like runners, predaliens and drones, but there's most likely other kinds of types we down know about. And as for the Praetorians, I think they're visible in Aliens for a brief few moments when they come walking out of the corridors, attempting to surround the two main characters. In that sense, I'd say they were royal guards of some sort - protecting the queen and following her orders more precisely than the drones, runners and predaliens. Drones being the cannon fodder, runners being the scouts and assassins, and predaliens soaking up damage and dealing it out like their species' tank. I'm willing to think that there's other species of aliens like we've seen already, just that our poor marines haven't encountered them yet.

As for the Marines, I've not much in the ways of view on them - most likely, they're like the result of the United States of America taking over the world and spreading into space - no offence, Americans. Using weaponry we know from today, though developed and advanced through time when greater materials wew discovered and promptly put to use. We've got the machine gun, a grenade launcher, a rocket launcher, and other such things - and they've most likely kept to those methods because they usually work.

And there's the end of my speculation.

"A lone alien in space, for instance, would be the singular hunter - using stealth and percision to hide and strike when the time was right, much like the predator. With a queen directing them and with a large amount, they would resort to swarming the enemy with a sheer mass of numbers, strength and speed. These two theroies can be seen in the two movies, I think - Alien with the first, Aliens with the second."

(Yeah sorry for the long quote...) My thoughts exactly. This is why I believe the Warriors in Aliens behaved the way they did as opposed to the Drone in Alien.

"(Yeah sorry for the long quote...) My thoughts exactly. This is why I believe the Warriors in Aliens behaved the way they did as opposed to the Drone in Alien."

Sorry for the long quote? Sorry for the large post. I'm overfilling with writing potential today and I don't know what to do with all of it!

All of the above: basically my take on things. I'd say they're both pretty even in strength and speed, but Aliens have the edge, due to their cunning brutality and stealth, Aliens seem to be stealthier when they're still, so I give stealth to the Predators, strength to the Aliens, Predators also have better strategy.

@Estatica: Hey no problem. As long the post isn't filled with a crap load of spam it's alright in my book. And welcome the site! I think this place really is picking up.

Anyway, I was reading about bird flu when it occurred to me that I forgot to ask one other thing (I also realized it when I read Estatica's earlier post): what do you guys think about the marines? Are they particularly big when it comes to Aliens and Predators going at it or do you think we'd be better off with characters like the ones in Alien?

@Bloo - When I think about it, I suppose the Marines are really just government grunts in the wrong place at the wrong time.
@Pred_Killer - Aliens don't need strategy, they've got supreme numbers - they can just swarm their enemy until they perish! Then again, with a lone alien, It'd be the opposite - they've got no higher-up and they're the boss of themselves, so it can go and play with it's food on a stealthy killing spree as seen on Alien.

Also, before I make a new topic about it, How does the rpg section work? Off topic, I know, but I don't like making topics about something that I've probably overlooked the rules and guidelines for.

"The predator species- ruthless, sadistic, bloodthirsty extraterrestrials. Their greatest joy is the pain and death..."
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THIS IS MADNESS! My God, this is such an inappropriate view of what the predators are, AvP is not about blood and gore and pain and suffering. Really, there are even clans that have rules against such things!



So anyway, getting over that, what DO i think...?
I have to agree with Deathdrop on the "almost Lovercraftian" thing. The xenomorph is a baby that has to kill in order to be born. What else if not the loss of a mother dying while giving birth does this symbolize? One life traded for another. Nothing is gained, though it is conforting that it is not a total loss. This time however, what is born is not new life, but death. The horror of watching the mother die and when you want to confort yourself by seeing the child, you see that the child is a demon. The xenomorph is the Jersy Devil. It is a baby born through murder, a baby that grows without a mother, a baby that knows only how to kill you and your loved ones. And you have no way of defending yourself against him because you don't know when he comes, you just know that when he does, you won't find anything bautiful anymore.

Now enough of the Scarecrow bullshit and let's talk biology. It is illogical to say that the Alien is stronger than the predator because it NEEDS to. The Alien has apparently infinite stamina, armoured skin and a complete disregard for anything that could make it inconfortable, which completely makes up for the undeniable fact that it is weaker than the predator who also needs to rest, feed, and for whome pain is an issue. Let's face it, a Predator can rush through walls, an Alien can barely keep a sliding door open. The alien is not the stronger one from this point of view.

"Now enough of the Scarecrow bullshit and let's talk biology. It is illogical to say that the Alien is stronger than the predator because it NEEDS to. The Alien has apparently infinite stamina, armoured skin and a complete disregard for anything that could make it inconfortable, which completely makes up for the undeniable fact that it is weaker than the predator who also needs to rest, feed, and for whome pain is an issue. Let's face it, a Predator can rush through walls, an Alien can barely keep a sliding door open. The alien is not the stronger one from this point of view."
Yay for long quotes!

This post is, to me, fairly confusing. You say that the alien is weaker because it doesn't need to rest, feed and it can't feel pain? Wouldn't that make it -stronger- than the predator?

I meant the Alien has less muscle power... physical strength, whatever they call it.

He is referencing the part in Predator 2 when the pred was barreling through walls in the apartment complex to get to his ship, a part I somehow forgot about, in comparison with the xeno in Aliens struggling to hold the APC door open.

If I interpreted it correctly, he also thinks that aliens have better stamina then a predator. I'm cool with that idea.

@APC doors being troubling for aliens
I don't think that the alien had trouble keeping the door open myself - just that it was trying to get a quick hit at the enemy through the gap available before attempting to do something strange to pull off the door. Still, I'm not going to argue - and I agree personally that the drones always seen in Aliens and Alien were too weak to break through walls as the predator had been able to do. Of course, that's not to say the other types of aliens wouldn't be able to do so. And on the other hand, keeping a door open that was obviously heavily and excessively powered is not the same as breaking through walls while running, and not a very good comparison when you look at it that way.

Yes, I'm being protective over the Aliens and saying they're more awesomer than the marines and predators - but I can't help it that I like them!

To me, Aliens don't need to be able to break down door and smash through walls, as that isn't 'their thing'.

They don't smash through the wall; they come in through the ceiling. They don't charge you head on; they pop out of the floor and pull you under.

They're relentless. I like to imagine that as an Alien is shot by a marine and is about to die, it's final thought would be "Y'know, if I spray my blood at this guy, I could still kill him."