Login / Signup

So... Is the Predator Honor Code bullshit?

Deathdrop, Yautja, 11 years ago

A recent thread got me thinking about this. Ever since the original AVP comic (and the subsequent Steve Perry novelizations) we're meant to think of the Preds as having some sort of honor code that somehow justifies their hunting and killing other sentient species.

The logic usually goes like this:

“Predators are brave, noble warriors who live with honor and seek to test their might against greater threats.”

We'll begin with the dubious notion of "honor." Vikings had an honor code. That didn't stop them from raping and pillaging entire towns. Same deal here. This is an honor code that allows intelligent species to be hunted and killed for sport (ie: shits and giggles).

“OK, they might do horrible things, but at least it’s a fair fight, right?

Except the first movie has the Pred shoot someone IN THE BACK, from a tree, with an energy weapon, while invisible. That's not even getting into thermal vision, bulletproof armor, and the fact that Preds can survive 6 point-blank gut shots from a sawn off shotgun. Excuse the pun, but on no planet is that a fair fight.

“Ok... But at least they only hunt dangerous people.”

Remember the scene in Predator 2 when the Pred offs an old woman with a pistol? Boy, she must have been a huge threat to the 8-foot tall space monster.

“But... Broken Tusk! He had teh honerz!”

This is the example everyone always cites. Broken Tusk is a skilled warrior who fights fairly and doesn’t harm civilians. And it would be a legit example if every other Predator in the comic wasn’t a complete bastard, but they were. They kill unarmed children, spread the most dangerous species in the universe around, and generally act like complete pricks.

“Fine. They’re not good guys, but they’re better than the Xenos.”

This argument usually invites a comparison to Freddy vs. Jason. No one would call Jason a hero, but we can root for him because he’s a lot less horrible than Freddy.

For all the evil he does, Jason runs purely on instinct. You get the sense that he doesn’t really understand what he’s doing. Freddy, on the other hand, is intelligent. He’s aware of what he’s doing, and does it anyway because he enjoys it.

Read the above paragraph again and tell me-Which sounds more like the Predators?

So with my "cool story bro" moment out of the way, what do the rest of you guys think?

-Bloo-, Yautja, 11 years ago

My post in the other topic was supposed to be a bit longer, but I could not for the life of me illustrate an example as well written as what you just posted.

It's not that the honor code is bullshit, it just means that Predators aren't the heroes a majority of our fandom makes them out to be. They might be a lesser of two evils (which your Freddy comparison completely blew out of the goddamn window), but by even just typing that phrase out to describe them, you're still admitting that they are, in fact, evil.

This is probably one of the better topics in the past few years that didn't involve Prometheus or an apocalypse.

daveberg, Yautja, 11 years ago

I suppose it's all situational.

Whatever the flow of the film, or the comic arc will reflect on the actions of the Predators. AVP needed an Anti-hero, and as DD said, a lesser of two evils to become the saving grace, thus depicting the predator in a better light, a creature of honor who respects other warriors and will not harm those who are of no threat.

You change the story, the situation, then you can bend the predators actions and have them do things that the fandom wouldn't particularly call 'honorable'.

Besides, I can't actually recall If 'honor' itself has been addressed in any of the films? I'm a little rusty on all things pred right now, and can only visualize Arnold saying 'No sport' after telling Anna not to take the gun in the original film.

-Bloo-, Yautja, 11 years ago

It was never explicitly set in stone, it was only heavily implied with the whole "sparing the pregnant women" and "you killed one of our own, you are worthy" situations, and really only in the second film.

alienxeno, Yautja, 11 years ago

it cant be bullshit.....at all.in the comics you mostly find hish!not yautja!so it must have been hish.no movie ever mentioned that the predator in that movie was yautja or hish.and you may think that yautja is a main species and hish should not apear so much......but they are both predator species!they can come as much as they want!with or without xenos!

Deathdrop, Yautja, 11 years ago

The comics feature Yautja, not Hish (assuming we're using those terms). The Steve Perry novels that introduced the "Yautja" concept are official adaptations of the original AVP comics. Most comics following from this generally follow the trends set by the original comics.

The "Hish" thing is a pretty recent addition, and their descriptions are quite different from previous novels/comics/etc.

In any case, it's worth noting that the movies never say anything about this one way or the other. In fact, I don't even remember the word "honor" being used. As Dave pointed out, "sport" is the operative word. They don't kill pregnant women because there's no sport in it, not because of any moral reasoning.

PREDATORv2, Yautja, 11 years ago

Leads back to the point that Predators are hunters, not warriors. Hunters use whatever tools/weapons they can to kill prey they deem worth hunting. Where as warriors would have an honor code and such. Most of the honor code stuff came from outside sources not from the movies. I'm going to have to agree with DD in that the honor code is fandom fantasy drummed up to make Predators seem more appealing. I'm sure it made a few people pretty excited when Scar and Lex joined up, but it was stupid moronic move in my opinion by an amateur director... Who needs to stop making Resident Evil movies.

Deathdrop, Yautja, 11 years ago

^ What made AVP all the more perplexing is that Scar straight-up murders a sick old man minutes before joining up with Lex.

Blizzard, Yautja, 11 years ago

To be fair that old man did try to burn him with a flamethrower
I alway s thought that the predator only harms people with weapons
or am I wrong ?

Kirby-Cage, Yautja, 11 years ago

^ the new guy is right. The old man turned his inhaler into a makeshift flamethrower and even with his aliments I'm sure the predator didn't care anymore, the man was trying to kill him (her?) and either A) suddenly became worthy prey or B) it was self defense and he didn't give a shit.

I always thought that every clan had its own "code" which is why each predator in each movie behaves differently ( they are from different clans right or am I wrong there? ) I even belive that those super preds have a "code" that's just watered down as shit. What I can't believe is that all those preds can live on one single planet and not start huge wars. ( which may or may not happen )

Blizzard, Yautja, 11 years ago

Im pretty sure I read somewhere that the predators were a nomandic race that go from planet to planet
In search of prey but I agree with Kirby with the idea that each clan has a separate code of honor

Mebber, Yautja, 11 years ago

I never really cared about this "honour" thing, mainly because i don't see the point of it at all. Honour is a rather abstract concept, and even if the yautja follow some sort of honour code, i don't thing that would make them nobler or less badass. What honour means or how it is accomplished or sustained may differ between different cultures, and since yautja aren't human at all, who knows what their exact perception of honour actually is.

That reminds me of some story i heard about the honour code of the so-called noble knights of the middleages. Their code gave them certain rules of behavior, some of them meant to force them to engange enemies in a sort of fair fight. Sounds very "honorble" and lead to this nice, romantic image of knights we have partly today. Point is, this code didn't applied to EVERYONE, just for other nobles. Non-noble were percieved as simply lower beings, and there was no problem to treat them like shit. So, this whole fair-play stuff didn't applied to all the poor field grunts or lowlife guys like your regular farmer bond-slave. They were more viewed as sort of "possessions", so why would you bother to act "fair" if you deal with them? You don't, you just stomp them under your horses feet like vermin without giving them the slightest chance. They just don't count into the whole honour thing.

So, i think honor is quite relative and subjective. Maybe the yautja have an code of honour, but even if, that wouldn't mean they're nicer guys as without a code.

Deathdrop, Yautja, 11 years ago

"To be fair that old man did try to burn him with a flamethrower"

6 shots. Point blank. Shotgun. No way a little fire is a threat.

"I alway s thought that the predator only harms people with weapons"

I've already addressed this.

@mebber: Good points.

alienxeno, Yautja, 11 years ago

there is a war of predators as seen in predator 3.

Deathdrop, Yautja, 11 years ago

Yeah, but how is that relevant?

-Bloo-, Yautja, 11 years ago

Kirby mentioned something about wars, but more likely than not, the Super Predators were just territorial assholes rather than rebels against the honor system.

Which brings me to Mebbers comment: clearly our "wolves" saw themselves as superior to the "dogs," and had no problem tying up a straggler to a post and leaving him there to die, which is a lot similar to the knight's honor system regarding peasants. In this context, the Super Predators' honor code isn't watered down, they're just royal dicks.

I'm not sure if I like that. It turns Predators in general back into monsters, but at the same time it takes our original/weaker breed of Predator and turns them into middle class jags, which is probably worse than having Scar and that one chick form the Baywatch Rebellion.

Mebber, Yautja, 11 years ago

I actually like that idea of the super predators beeing some sort of noble snobs. Until now, i always wondered why they behaved so different from the original predators and treated their own kind like worthless cattle, and i thought they might be just another subrace or so. But maybe they're just some sort of really decadent yautja, an elite, the product of a community where the hunt was the most important thing for centuries, which finally lead to a state were even members of their own kind were viewed as inferior beings if they don't belong to a special bloodline of ancient hunters. Like a really harsh class (not caste) society, and the super predators belong to the degenerated top and look down on all who aren't "on pair" with them - a bit like it is with our own human aristocracy. I don't see this as degrading the original predators, more like giving the entire (decadent) yautja society more depth. And it boosts the motivation of the yautja to hunt - to proof they're not worthless.

concretehunter, Yautja, 11 years ago

Let me be clear. Predators are giant douchebags who LOVE killing.

Human hunters to get around preservation laws say "it was coming right at me" what's to say they don't either.

I would comment more on this but I'm typing from a phone.

-Bloo-, Yautja, 11 years ago

"And it boosts the motivation of the yautja to hunt - to proof they're not worthless."

Wow, above all, this was probably the greatest rebuttal. I don't want to sound like a Yes Man, but again you make a good argument, Mebber.

Topdogg, Yautja, 11 years ago

Now this ladies and gentlemen is the thread of the year, DD if I could, id high five you like a motherfucker right now baby.

Deathdrop, Yautja, 11 years ago

Oh, SHIT! What's up, TD?